BlackMamba

2002 Mustang Issues

39 posts in this topic

Looking for any kind of help with my 2002 Mustang GT. Long story short, my brother blew the motor up in it several months back. Looks like it was starved for oil and it locked the motor up. I got a motor out of a crown vic from Cameron and did the swap. Just finished everything up and went to crank the motor, but it wont crank at all.

Turn the key to start, lights in the dash come on, fuel pump primes, but just  hear a few relays its seems clicking but the starter wont crank. I pulled the starter fuse relay out and jumped 30 to 87 and the car cranks and cranks and cranks but doesn't start.

I put a new ignition starter switch on with no change, had a extra coil and spark plug and plugged it in to number 4 cylinder and saw spark. The theft light flashes slow like it still sees the key fine, All fuses are ok.It had an after market security system on it and I pulled all of it out and still no crank.
What am I missing or what else can I check? Any body wanna come look at it and Ill pay you some money, I dont care. Just wanna get this thing running.

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The starter not cranking with the key must be related to that security system.  Double check all that.

 

Check for 12v on the injectors.  The ecu grounds the injectors, so with the key on you should get 12v to one of the wires.  A noid light would be better if you can get one.  

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I ripped out all the non factory security system already under the dash. The only wire that I saw that was cut and went through the security box was the White with red strip. I have reconnected the wire together  which I believe is the signal wire color to the starter. But still no change. I think I am going to check ever wire the security system used because whoever installed it used the splice in connectors, and maybe a wire was cut using those?

I will check the injector for 12V tomorrow and see if anyone around me has a noid light.

It wont be the factory VATS system right? I thought in the 99-04 years the car cranks and just doesnt have spark.

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So, when you jump the relay it cranks, so either the relay is junk or it's not being "told" to crank....

Terminal 86 in the relay is ground, check that it is.  If not, ground it.  If good....

Check for 12v at terminal 85 when the key is turned to crank.  If no power when "crank", the power should come through the clutch switch or neutral safety switch, both are fed from Fuse #6, a 20A, located in the Central Junction Box (behind dash, left of steering column)  

This assumes the "aftermarket security" has been eliminated correctly.

(I couldn't figure out how to get an alldata diagram here or you'd have a picture.)

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And, the wire from the clutch/neutral switch to relay is white with pink tracer.  Could that be the one cut?

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So I rented a Noid Light set from autzone. I checked 2 injectors on each side of the motor and the light pulsed on and off when cranking the car. Key was to start and I used a pair of pliers to jump the starter relay with the relay pulled out.

I check and I do not have any kind of ground of to the relay. I put a wire in the slot and put the relay back in and ground the wire to the battery and still no crank.

I also put a fuse in the connector to the clutch safety switch to bypass it just to make sure and still nothing.

Checked fuse number 6 and it is good.

 

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On 11/19/2018 at 8:26 PM, Ashley P said:

(I couldn't figure out how to get an alldata diagram here or you'd have a picture.)

If the diagram isn't too large, open it and open the snipping tool and make a selective screenshot.

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3 hours ago, BlackMamba said:

 

I check and I do not have any kind of ground of to the relay. I put a wire in the slot and put the relay back in and ground the wire to the battery and still no crank.

Checked fuse number 6 and it is good.

 

The relay "control side" should have a permanent ground on terminal 86. 

The power from crank switch and clutch switch powers the relay on terminal 85.  Do you have that power?

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I checked everything at the relay today. I have ground at terminal 86 key on and key off, which I believe is correct.

I have 12v at terminal 30, which I believe is correct.

I do not get anything when i turn the key to start/on/off at 85 which is the signal wire correct? I put a wire in the slot and installed the relay then bumped the wire to the positive terminal of the battery and the car started to crank. Still wont start which I am sure is another issue but wanna get it cranking first.

Also there was a relay in the pack of wires that I disconnected with the aftermarket security system. Should this relay be placed somewhere back into the system somewhere? I couldn't find anything it seemed to be missing.

Guys thank you for taking time out to help me on this, I really appreciate it!

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Correct, terminal 85 is the signal wire from clutch switch and ignition crank switch.  Factory wiring (according to alldata) only shows what I listed above (fuse, ignition switch, clutch switch, then relay).  That wire is white/pink.  Find where that's missing and you'll be cranking.

 

Fuse #6 under the dash will only be hot with ignition switch in the crank position.  Make sure you checked the right fuse (ford is crappy about labeling).  From there the wire goes to the clutch switch then to the relay.  Run a new wire if you can't find the open.

 

Edited by Ashley P

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3 hours ago, BlackMamba said:

IAlso there was a relay in the pack of wires that I disconnected with the aftermarket security system. Should this relay be placed somewhere back into the system somewhere? I couldn't find anything it seemed to be missing.

If it is the interrupt relay it just breaks the lead that triggers the starter, as long as you reconnected the lead that it breaks it should be back to normal.  The systems I have been exposed to usually just tap into the circuits for triggers and lights, this is the only relay that actually break a circuit.

Remote start systems are a bit different, but I have never worked with them only looked at the diagrams/manuals.  If you know what the system is you may be able to look at a manual and see how it was connected.

 

I would probably start at the switch and work forward.

Edited by Cannon Fodder

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I believe you are correct to start at the switch and work my way back. Is the White with Pink wire supposed to have 12V when the key is switched to start? I am getting no volts at the start position or crank position. Would this lead someone to think the switch is bad?

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6 hours ago, BlackMamba said:

 Is the White with Pink wire supposed to have 12V when the key is switched to start?

I am getting no volts at the start position or crank position. Would this lead someone to think the switch is bad?

Yes.

Not necessarily, it depends on where you are checking for voltage. 

 

Have you checked for power going into the switch?  The switch gets power from the Battery Junction Box fuse #3, 40A.  That power gets to the switch at terminals B4 and B5  which are both LG/VT.  Get to probing around there.

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With the key on the Off Position, the only wires that have power are the 3 solid yellow wires.

With the key to the run position all wires have power except the white/red wire.

In the start position, again only the solid yellow wires have power.

 

I did a continuity check on the white/red wire to the clutch switch and with the fuse in it to jump the switch i had .2 Ohms on each side of the fuse. I tried to put 12 volts to the red and white wire and it wont crank still.

Also I turn the key back to ACC and i dont get anything to come on in the car.

Edited by BlackMamba
More info

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1 hour ago, BlackMamba said:

With the key on the Off Position, the only wires that have power are the 3 solid yellow wires.

 

In the start position, again only the solid yellow wires have power.

Then....check the 40A fuse #3 at the BJB.

 

20 hours ago, Ashley P said:

The switch gets power from the Battery Junction Box fuse #3, 40A.  That power gets to the switch at terminals B4 and B5  which are both LG/VT.  Get to probing around there.

 

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Yup it was blown, i replaced it and now have 12 volts when i turn the key to start. Still cant get it to crank.

Sorry to ask as I am wanting to fully understand what i need to check. From the switch the white with red wire, can you tell me the path the wire travels to relay? I guess I need to check continuity from the switch to all places and see where the wire is broken.

Thanks again for all the help. I guess the 40 Amp fuse blew sometime while checking all this **** and didnt know it.

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25 minutes ago, BlackMamba said:

Yup it was blown, i replaced it and now have 12 volts when i turn the key to start.

Well, that's progress....but where do you "have 12 volts when...start"?  

I don't know the physical path of the wires, but electrically the switch (in crank) puts power on that white/pink wire which powers up Fuse #6 at the dash, then the clutch switch, then the relay.

 

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I checked everything right at the wires going into the switch. I guess i need to pull the fuse on number 6 and see if I have incoming voltage then check at the switch and go from there? Thanks for helping me this far.

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2 hours ago, BlackMamba said:

I checked everything right at the wires going into the switch. I guess i need to pull the fuse on number 6 and see if I have incoming voltage then check at the switch and go from there? Thanks for helping me this far.

 

You replaced the 40A fuse and now have power "right at the wires going into the switch".   Do you mean that the white/pink wire powers up when it should, or that only the LG/VT wires power up??

 

I never pull any fuses, I just stick a test light on them to see if they are "hot" on both sides.  Remember, that fuse is only hot with the switch in "crank" position.   You can Ohm the wires, but I think it's faster to get someone (or vice grips) to hold the switch in the crank position and probe all those points (white/pink wire out of the switch, fuse 6, clutch switch, relay) with a test light.  Pay lots of attention to the test light's ground.  I probe a known power source often just to verify the light.

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Yes everything seems to be working correctly when I replaced the fuse. I now have power from the switch to the white/Red when the key is to start.

I probed for power (all while key is at start position, had my son hold it there and turn it on and off to confirm my probe light when off and on), Checked at the switch, where i had to splice the wire back together, incoming and out going of fuse #6, at incoming side of clutch switch with fuse pulled, put fuse in and check back side of wire out going.

All had power on and off with the switch being turned to start and run. Unless there is another connection to check it has to be loosing the signal from back of clutch switch to relay under hood correct?

Thanks

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Well i pulled the bottom cover off the fuse box in the engine compartment and put a wire into the slot for the signal wire to the relay, then ran it to the output side of the clutch switch and now it will crank with the key just like it should.

I am guessing the connection in the inner fender could be the possible issue? I also went to pull the fuel line off the rail and turn the key to start to drain the old gas from the tank and I guess the fuel pump is not coming on and priming when I turn the key to run position. Ugh more stuff to figure out. I am hoping someone can tell me that the connector that is in question in the fender also has the wire for the fuel pump signal and it narrow down my search.

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Hey, it's progress.  Good deal.

I just tried to find that info about connector locations, but Ford is #$%^&* and I've gotta find some patience to look through their diagrams.  Maybe tomorrow.

Before then, double check EVERY fuse with a light, you might head off a problem that way.  And any crash switch. 

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