JohnC

Tuning L99 for Heads, Cam, Exhaust, Converter, etc.

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So i'm thinking about this more. When did it start? When did you first notice the spark knock and such? IIRC, it ran pretty dang well at first. I recall doing some pulls in it all the way to 6800 and not having any dips or feeling of timing being pulled. Do you have any logs showing the KR? What fuel are you using now? Have you tried using 93 Octane? I just wonder if something else is wrong because it seems it used to run pretty damn good, now you're saying you about have to push it to work.

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On 7/3/2018 at 10:39 AM, Disney said:

So i'm thinking about this more. When did it start? When did you first notice the spark knock and such? IIRC, it ran pretty dang well at first. I recall doing some pulls in it all the way to 6800 and not having any dips or feeling of timing being pulled. Do you have any logs showing the KR? What fuel are you using now? Have you tried using 93 Octane? I just wonder if something else is wrong because it seems it used to run pretty damn good, now you're saying you about have to push it to work.

I've run 93 and E85 with the same results on KR.

It's had spark knock since I got it back. It's false knock as I've confirmed that by running race fuel and all the timing I've pulled. 

This thread is full of logs with spark knock retard. I'll post a couple more later for you running E85 + 64 ounces of Torco Race Fuel.

As I said earlier in the thread, depending on the E85 octane, that is between 111 to 116 octane. With timing as low as I'm running it now, there is no damn way it's real knock.

As Gammey explained, it's probably the untuned VVE tables and all causing the false knock.

The car when you ran it wasn't even tuned as well as it is now since me and Gammey tweaked it. It's way stronger now.  So I don't know where you get the push it to work thing.

Again, I had a tech at Texas Speed look at the tune file. He said there was a lot of work to do to fix that tune. Even the VVT tables were entered incorrect according to him. I fixed that, sent the tune back to him and he confirmed it is now correct.

That all said...I'm not the one finding issues in the tune. it is folks who know what to look for like the Texas Speed tech, Gammey, etc. I've however been trying to fix the issues with help after logging knock and seeing the dyno hp curve dip out at 5,600 rpm's.

Fwiw...  You did some good work. It's just the tune is not right and we're trying to fix it. That's it. So don't take all this personal. :up:

 

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So when tuning VVE, I am basically canceling the MAF and tuning / running speed density?

Do I need to work on the MAF curve again?

I'm pretty sure my pcv is sucking oil from the valve cover, too. So I plan to do another catch can to see if that reduced the KR we're seeing. 

That valve cover had a factory pcv connector, but it was broke where the tube connects. So I just put a rubber hose on to connect it to the clean air side (CAI).

Could that be making the oil consumption worse? Do those fittings only allow flow in one direction?

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So when tuning VVE, I am basically canceling the MAF and tuning / running speed density?

Do I need to work on the MAF curve again?

I'm pretty sure my pcv is sucking oil from the valve cover, too. So I plan to do another catch can to see if that reduced the KR we're seeing. 

That valve cover had a factory pcv connector, but it was broke where the tube connects. So I just put a rubber hose on to connect it to the clean air side (CAI).

Could that be making the oil consumption worse? Do those fittings only allow flow in one direction?

Yes, make a graph to copy your vve table after you adjust it to your predicted airflow. I would set it to around 1,000mg. Use the ltft+stft math to get your error percentages. On your logs add predicted engine torque and delivered engine torque.

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On 7/4/2018 at 6:52 AM, JohnC said:

As I said earlier in the thread, depending on the E85 octane, that is between 111 to 116 octane. With timing as low as I'm running it now, there is no damn way it's real knock.

John, your tuning is WAY outta my league, but I wanna point out some things about octane and "knock".  While your statements above are probably correct, I want to point out that figuring octane is not as simple as throwing X additive into Y octane and getting Z.  I'll point out that just a little diesel added to 87 octane will make a gas engine knock like crazy. Perhaps your fuel is "contaminated" with the oil that your "burning". 

There is a good read about "knock" here  http://www.turbofast.com.au/racefuel.html

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6 hours ago, gammey4 said:

Yes

Looks like some stuff has changed since that video.

I don't see: Mass Airflow Sensor >  MAF Frequency Fail to do the first step.... :wall:

 

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On 7/4/2018 at 6:52 AM, JohnC said:

I've run 93 and E85 with the same results on KR.

It's had spark knock since I got it back. It's false knock as I've confirmed that by running race fuel and all the timing I've pulled. 

This thread is full of logs with spark knock retard. I'll post a couple more later for you running E85 + 64 ounces of Torco Race Fuel.

As I said earlier in the thread, depending on the E85 octane, that is between 111 to 116 octane. With timing as low as I'm running it now, there is no damn way it's real knock.

As Gammey explained, it's probably the untuned VVE tables and all causing the false knock.

The car when you ran it wasn't even tuned as well as it is now since me and Gammey tweaked it. It's way stronger now.  So I don't know where you get the push it to work thing.

Again, I had a tech at Texas Speed look at the tune file. He said there was a lot of work to do to fix that tune. Even the VVT tables were entered incorrect according to him. I fixed that, sent the tune back to him and he confirmed it is now correct.

That all said...I'm not the one finding issues in the tune. it is folks who know what to look for like the Texas Speed tech, Gammey, etc. I've however been trying to fix the issues with help after logging knock and seeing the dyno hp curve dip out at 5,600 rpm's.

Fwiw...  You did some good work. It's just the tune is not right and we're trying to fix it. That's it. So don't take all this personal. :up:

 

Oh, sorry. Reread that and I see what you mean, but I certainly wasn't taking anything personally. I was just brainstorming, throwing out questions rapid fire. 

Wonder how the VVE tables got through untuned? I'm surprised it ran as well as it did. Hopefully that alone will help out a lot of this.

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14 hours ago, gammey4 said:

Engine diagnostic under airflow

Going through the setup and I see where he put it in speed density.

He set:

Engine > Fuel > Oxygen Sensors > Long Term Fuel Trims > Min ECT to 284F

So I was never using the MAF, right?

Probably a big reason I was getting 9 to 10 MPG's average. :lol:

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Going through the setup and I see where he put it in speed density.

He set:

Engine > Fuel > Oxygen Sensors > Long Term Fuel Trims > Min ECT to 284F

So I was never using the MAF, right?

Probably a big reason I was getting 9 to 10 MPG's average. :lol:

That just disabled your ltft’s. Nothing to do with speed density. Set maf fail hertz to 1, and set dtc p101, 102 and 103 to report error on first error with check engine light enabled. Reenable ltft and use stft+ltft as your math parameter.

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Not liking this method of tuning from that video....

Ran like **** and when I pulled out on the highway, it went in to reduced power mode and ran real shitty. Felt like it wasn't going to go when I pulled out in traffic and slowed down going up hills. :fear:

Once I cleared the MAF MIL, it got back out of reduced power mode.

I'm sure the VVE log is screwed since it went in limp mode, but here is the tune file with canceled MAF just like the video said do with log....

And, it never logged anything but 10.0 area of MAP kpa

Short drive cancled MAF.hpl

Speed_Density_Tune_07_10_2018.hpt

VVE_MAF_Cancled.Channels.xml

VVE_MAF_Cancled.Layout.xml

Going to flash back to my last tune....

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8 minutes ago, gammey4 said:

That just disabled your ltft’s. Nothing to do with speed density. Set maf fail hertz to 1, and set dtc p101, 102 and 103 to report error on first error with check engine light enabled. Reenable ltft and use stft+ltft as your math parameter.

Where path to fail hertz?

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56 minutes ago, JohnC said:
Not liking this method of tuning from that video....

Ran like **** and when I pulled out on the highway, it went in to reduced power mode and ran real shitty. Felt like it wasn't going to go when I pulled out in traffic and slowed down going up hills. :fear:

I'm sure the VVE log is screwed since it went in limp mode, but here is the tune file with canceled MAF just like the video said do with log....

And, it never logged anything but 10.0 area of MAP kpa

Short drive cancled MAF.hpl

Speed_Density_Tune_07_10_2018.hpt

VVE_MAF_Cancled.Channels.xml

VVE_MAF_Cancled.Layout.xml

Going to flash back to my last tune....

 

It’s going to run like absolute crap until you get it dialed in, that’s to be expected. If it only logged the “10” cell then you are missing a input in your channels. Bear in mind that ve tuning is very very time consuming and requires you to be able to interpret the data and predict trends. Filters in your graph will be your best friend or you will end up chasing your tail.

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7 hours ago, gammey4 said:

That just disabled your ltft’s. Nothing to do with speed density. Set maf fail hertz to 1, and set dtc p101, 102 and 103 to report error on first error with check engine light enabled. Re-enable ltft and use stft+ltft as your math parameter.

OK, so do this above plus what the video said do to fail the maf?

Or..

Just do what you're saying here to fail the maf?

Still need to figure out what's wrong with my VVE graph. I used the cop labels from the VVE graph in my tune, so I know that's right. Only thing that could be wrong is maybe I chose the wrong parameter. That's easy to do with it has so many of the same thing....

VVE_Graph_settings.jpg

Bare with me. I'm a rookie here trying to learn. :yes:

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OK, so do this above plus what the video said do to fail the maf?

Or..

Just do what you're saying here to fail the maf?

Still need to figure out what's wrong with my VVE graph. I used the cop labels from the VVE graph in my tune, so I know that's right. Only thing that could be wrong is maybe I chose the wrong parameter. That's easy to do with it has so many of the same thing....

VVE_Graph_settings.jpg

Bare with me. I'm a rookie here trying to learn. :yes:

I haven’t watched the video. What I’m telling you to do will fail it however. Your car will run terrible, expect it to. And make sure the channel units in the graph are the same unit, ie mg and mg or gram and gram. Vve will be in mg.

Parameter will be ltft+stft unders maths-fuel trims

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19 hours ago, gammey4 said:

That just disabled your ltft’s. Nothing to do with speed density. Set maf fail hertz to 1, and set dtc p101, 102 and 103 to report error on first error with check engine light enabled. Reenable ltft and use stft+ltft as your math parameter.

So set both: Mass Airflow Sensor > MAF Frequency Fail Hg and MAF Frequency Fail Low to 1?

That's it other than DTC's p101, p102 and p103 to report on first error?

Or do everything else in the video plus what you said? 

To do the "Parameter will be ltft+stft under maths-fuel trims" I just right click copy then multiply by % 1/2?

Or is that set up in the graph? 

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Tried the VVE thing.....

Pasted in the VVE errors in the VVE table in the tune, multiplied % 1/2 and smoothed the graph.

It wouldn't let me save anything until I did the calculate coefficients thing. :???:

Once I did that and saved the file, I uploaded it to the car.

My luck, it ran worse. :(

Barely would idle and drive at low speed / low rpm. :wall:

Like 3 months of trying to iron out this tune.... This is getting exhausting.... :dead:

 

 

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