JohnC

Tuning LS3 for E85

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OK, so I have all the Flex Fuel stuff enabled in my tune file.

Problem is, it doesn't look like it has any factory AFR and Timing Tables, etc.

Where do I start?

I just need a base E85 tune for HP Tuners I can start with.

Thanks. :yes:

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Did you buy your flex fuel kit directly from DSX?  If so, email him your tune file and he will populate those tables.

If you don't have the flex fuel air fuel ratios in there, I would not be running e85 yet.  It will be lean if it's still on stock pump gas AFR's.

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OK, so I have all the Flex Fuel stuff enabled in my tune file.

Problem is, it doesn't look like it has any factory AFR and Timing Tables, etc.

Where do I start?

I just need a base E85 tune for HP Tuners I can start with.

Thanks. :yes:

Let me look at your tune when I get home and I’ll give you some changes for it.

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2 hours ago, Mike said:

Did you buy your flex fuel kit directly from DSX?  If so, email him your tune file and he will populate those tables.

If you don't have the flex fuel air fuel ratios in there, I would not be running e85 yet.  It will be lean if it's still on stock pump gas AFR's.

I sent him the file and he enabled Flex. He also populated some tables. But some are not populated and just have 0's.

Zero tables:

 Engine > Spark > Advance > General > Alcohol Adder > [ECM] 12661 Max Torque Timing Alcohol Adder.

 Engine > Spark > Advance > Spark Correction > AFR Correction > Alcohol [ECM] 12635 - PE/COT Apark Advance Correction (Alcohol) vs. RPM vs. EQ Ratio

 Engine > Spark > Advance > Spark Correction > Misc > Flex Fuel Spark > [ECM] 12678 - Flex Fuel Spark

Engine> Fuel > Transient > Transient Fuel Mass Gain > Blend > [ECM] 13626 - Impact Factor Blend

Engine> Fuel > Transient > Evap Factor > [ECM] 13629 Evaporation Factor Blend

 Not sure if this is related, but...

Engine> Fuel > Transient > Warmup Transient Fuel Correct > Base Gain > [ECM] 13620 - Stomp Compensation Base Gain 

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Max torque table shouldn’t need any values in it. Anything there would throw off calculated airmass calculations.

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Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems to be running smoother, idles quieter, and feels like it takes less gas pedal (aka has more power) to get it moving. :shrug:

DSX turned on the Flex and I noticed some tables are filled. So I think it's just a base setup so the sensor can adjust to the ethanol %, etc.

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You are not crazy at least about it running quieter and possibly smoother.  There is a noticeable difference for me when I switch between 93 and E85 in the exhaust itself.  On 93 it crackles and pops between shifts and on decel alot more and it sounds louder in general.  E85 is almost like stealth mode.  It will let out a bang between shifts from time to time on E but its nowhere near as often as on 93.  Also, the GT may not may much more power WOT on E85 but I can definitely feel it driving around town, stop light to stop light and in the middle of the power band for sure.

Matt

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9 minutes ago, 66sprint6 said:

You are not crazy at least about it running quieter and possibly smoother.  There is a noticeable difference for me when I switch between 93 and E85 in the exhaust itself.  On 93 it crackles and pops between shifts and on decel alot more and it sounds louder in general.  E85 is almost like stealth mode.  It will let out a bang between shifts from time to time on E but its nowhere near as often as on 93.  Also, the GT may not may much more power WOT on E85 but I can definitely feel it driving around town, stop light to stop light and in the middle of the power band for sure.

Matt

Who tuned your GT for E85?

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Lund Racing did my flex fuel and E85 only tunes.  My first experience with tuning over email etc and they have been great.  On the ST I just ran the latest updates to Cobb's canned tunes and they were ok but I knew it was a couple revisions from being just right but didnt want to pay for it.  Knowing what I know now, I woulda done it in a heartbeat.  

Matt

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OH, one other thing.  Once you go full E85 you may notice the motor takes longer to fire up on cold starts.  Not sure if you will or wont but on the Coyote that is the case for anyone running E, especially in colder months.  Im back on 93 for the cold months and it fires up instantly again but I remember wondering what was wrong the first real cool morning that mine took a couple more turns to fire.  Dont panic, its normal.

Matt

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2 hours ago, 66sprint6 said:

OH, one other thing.  Once you go full E85 you may notice the motor takes longer to fire up on cold starts.  Not sure if you will or wont but on the Coyote that is the case for anyone running E, especially in colder months.  Im back on 93 for the cold months and it fires up instantly again but I remember wondering what was wrong the first real cool morning that mine took a couple more turns to fire.  Dont panic, its normal.

Matt

Yeah, I read that one Camaro5.

Probably because it's higher octane. It's a bit harder to ignite. :up:

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@gammey4 this quote doesn't make sense to me...

Quote

Disregard AFR and use lambda, your wideband is still setup on the gas scale so it's always going to show stoich at or around 14.7.

You should see the commanded AFR in the scanner showing a lower number commanded like around 11-12 afr because of the alcohol content. This is why lambda is better, lambda stays at 1.00 no matter the fuel you are using.

Where do I go to command the correct AFR for E85 in my tune?

I thought correct AFR in Lambda for E85 would be like 0.800-ish?

Or is that for WOT?

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@gammey4 this quote doesn't make sense to me...

Disregard AFR and use lambda, your wideband is still setup on the gas scale so it's always going to show stoich at or around 14.7.

You should see the commanded AFR in the scanner showing a lower number commanded like around 11-12 afr because of the alcohol content. This is why lambda is better, lambda stays at 1.00 no matter the fuel you are using.

Where do I go to command the correct AFR for E85 in my tune?

I thought correct AFR in Lambda for E85 would be like 0.800-ish?

Or is that for WOT?

Look at table 12300, it’s already there and correct.

I’m checking your tune now btw.

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Everything looks fine other than you are adding no timing for e85. And make the switch to tuning with lambda , it is easier. Your gauges are easy to change, make a new graph for the scanner, and add commanded lambda to your channels.

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14 hours ago, gammey4 said:

Everything looks fine other than you are adding no timing for e85. And make the switch to tuning with lambda , it is easier. Your gauges are easy to change, make a new graph for the scanner, and add commanded lambda to your channels.

Can you refresh my memory on how to do that graph in lambda?

As far as adding spark. It seems to run strong in Drive, but in Sport I get tip in knock or low rpm high load knock, especially right after a cold start.

Will post the Sport Mode log vs Drive.

I didn't get to go WOT much because of all the cops out and heavy traffic.

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Why is 5600 rpm so different from it's neighbors?

That area is one he won’t hit, still stock values.

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@gammey4

Compare my Low octane and High octane spark. See any room for improvement?

LowOctaneSpark.jpg

HighOctaneSpark.jpg

Now how much timing should I add for the E85 [ECM] 12678 - Flex Fuel Spark table?

Give me a few to finish a oil/fuel filter change and my homework and I’ll get something to you.

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Someone else looked at my logs and said this:

Quote

Outside of power enrichment it looks pretty good, commanded and actual are staying very close and the fuel trims are doing good.

But in PE the commanded lambda and the actual lambda aren't jiving right now. The EQ ratio still looks factory and that's really fat and your widebands are both reading leaner than the commanded.

You are running the MAF currently so add to the MAF curve above like 7,000hz ish to richen the fuel mixture to match your commanded target. Try like 2-3% at a time to add little by little to get close to the target EQ. Once you are there then you should take your entire power enrichment EQ ratio and lean the whole table out. On E85 or the mixed blend you are running you should totally be able to command a 12.5 or so AFR or .85 lambda. (up to the user if they wish to run leaner later on). Remember you have both a regular EQ and alcohol EQ you should adjust. 

It really shouldn't take much tuning to dial in the rest here. You can also create a lambda error for this as well and it help you just as well for dialing everything in.

Whatcha think?

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I tried to log fuel pump duty cycle, but evidentially, HPT has a bug where most folks report their logs show the pump stuck at 99.6% DC.

Mine is doing the same.

Trying to figure out how to fix that in HPT.

Deleting and adding it back to the scanner doesn't fix the issue. :no:

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