Ashley P

24hrs of LeMons or Chumpcar

28 posts in this topic

Both series are running at the NCM track, one in June the other in July (if I recall correctly).  Who has any interest in going to watch?  Or....competing?  It sure looks like a lot of fun.

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Chumpcar @ NCMMP on June 17,18

24 of Lemons @ NCMMP on July 8,9.

Chump values cars on a points system with the goal of a 500 point race car.  Up to 1000 point cars can run with lap penalties.  "Performance adding" parts add points to the car.  So, start with a low point car = more modes possible.

Potential builds would be:  

  1. 150 point 2nd gen Trans Am.  Could legally have a 275ish hp car that handled pretty well.  Could also have 100 more wheel hp and be fast and handle, but close to illegal to compete for the podium.  Bonus: chassis build up would double for drag strip use.  Gas guzzler with spare parts galore.
  2. 150 point Geo Storm.  Would need engine work to run.  Potential fuel miser.  Engine swap probably needed.  No spare parts. Use engine from choice 3?
  3. 225 point 1998 Corolla.   Reliable fuel miser.  Boring automatic. Boo.  Imagine hundreds of laps in an automatic....forget it and watch paint dry.
  4. 325 point Cougar (about 1990).  302 has already survived many dozen laps WOT on dirt.  If 200 points, lots of room for mods, turbo?

No Disney and Mike, I don't have time.  However, my brother does, and cars 3 and 4 are his.  I'm hoping he goes for #4 or #2 with engine swap and I can do a little prep work and draft my way into a little racing action.   Might work...

Edited by Ashley P
325 point Cougar

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Tino, http://chumpcar.com and http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/prices-rules#

In general: cage the car (well), nomex everything on driver, and it takes > $1000 to enter. I think Chump requires fire suppression that's remote.  Those are the hurdles that I view as the most difficult (because they require the most $$$).

"I" have a Civic.  (Does it have to be in MY name?)  <- Classic signs of "borrow the neighbors Lemon. lol

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Having raced in both series, I see pros and cons to both series.

Lemons is way more fun in that there are fun and goofy things happening on and off track. More camaraderie there by far. It's more fun seeing the theme'd up cars too.

ChumpCar is for the people that want to race crappy  cars, but don't want the goofy-ness of Lemons. Chumpcar purports to actually "race" and you are racing for something. Lemons isn't so much a race and there's not as much to race for. 1, 2, 3 don't get trophies. 1 will and some car that had a terrible weekend might win something, and the absolutely worst car out there will win the biggest prize.

Both series require similar prep to the car. Chump requires all glass to be taken out (except windshield) which sucks. Lemons is more fun from a cheating aspect, but cheating doesn't help you, because winning isn't the goal there... sort of.

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Disney, what was your learning curve like on your first race?    And I did gather that there would be way more Monty Python fans at LeMons than Chump.

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7 hours ago, Disney said:

Lemons is more fun from a cheating aspect, but cheating doesn't help you, because winning isn't the goal there... sort of.

Cheating?

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54 minutes ago, Cannon Fodder said:

Cheating?

Yeah, you know, putting BMW stickers on Pontiac Trans Ams.  How else could all those BMWs win?

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No, like rolling a crappy old Ford LTD through tech by hand because it won't start yet, but then during the race it's discovered it's a 500hp LS in it with NASCAR brakes and suspension.

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lol  That'd work!

My brother has taken the bait and has pulled out some line...this 302 cam/headers/camber adjustment, stiff shocks/springs might happen.

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57 minutes ago, Disney said:

No, like rolling a crappy old Ford LTD through tech by hand because it won't start yet, but then during the race it's discovered it's a 500hp LS in it with NASCAR brakes and suspension.

I figure that would be seen in tech.

 

But if it had NASCAR brakes and suspension, wouldn't it only turn left? :lol:

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In my few Lemons races, I saw lots of cheaty things. One guy had some stock looking shocks that were all valved up and had fittings in the side for remote res to be installed after tech. One lemons team recently went thru tech with a stock looking miata and installed a turbo kit over night in the paddock. 

 

Since brakes dont count in the cost, some teams would show up to $3K brake systems on $500 cars.

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The $500 limit kind of kills a lot.  Where do you get an E30 for $500 or less?  My set of Dunlops were more than $500 and that was over 10 years ago.

Edited by Cannon Fodder

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^ Someone didn't read the rules. ;)    First, some items don't count toward vehicle value.  Tires, brakes, safety (including ball joints, tie rods, cage, ect), gauges to name a few.   Second, in chump the $ equates to Chump points and cars are assigned points like I listed above.  A second gen F-body is "$150", leaving a LOT of room for improvement.  Youtube the "blitzvinning" team, a 2nd gen TransAm that blows their doors off in the straights.  (And sounds illegal when I listen to it, non stock transmission gear ratios with straight cut gear whine = ? )

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I must have missed that when I was looking at the LeMons rules.  I knew the safety items didn't count, belts, cage, seat, etc.

Edited by Cannon Fodder

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On 2/12/2017 at 10:22 AM, Cannon Fodder said:

The $500 limit kind of kills a lot.  Where do you get an E30 for $500 or less?  My set of Dunlops were more than $500 and that was over 10 years ago.

My garage? I bought one for $500 for a few parts and will off load the car with engine when  i'm done with it.

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:lol:  No I mean initially, a running and driving E30 for $500 to stay within the rules?

Or was there come creative accounting going on?

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Buy E30 for <$500. Make run and drive. Go racing?  Or are you somehow seeing things differently?

 

I think you may be taking this $500 thing too literally. Nobody at the track will sell you their car for $500. Probably not for $5,000. Can you buy an E30 for under $500? YES. That's the point.

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No, I'm not seeing things differently.  Just doing a quick look at the rules and looking around Craigslist I didn't find an E30 or many running vehicles period for $500 or less.

 

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I'm not being argumentative, just what I have seen.

 

Theoretically bending the spirit of the rules:

4.1: Total Investment in Vehicle Can Not Exceed $500: Except for items described in Rules 4.2 and 4.3, the total spent to purchase and prepare any car may not exceed $500.
4.1.1: Lame-Ass Rationalizations: Cars that "should be" worth $500 don't count; cars that "were worth $500" before you spent another $2000 to fix them don't count; cars you've owned for 20 years and spent more than $500 on during that time don't count; "it would have been worth $500 if it didn't already have a cage" doesn't count. Five hundred dollars means five hundred frickin' dollars.
4.1.2: Lame-Ass Rationalizations About Parts: Same deal. "Free" parts, parts given to you by your buddies, parts left lying around the shop...that crap doesn't impress us. It's worth whatever the last real guy paid in the last real purchase. Don't think you're clever.

 

Buying an estate/divorce sale GT3 RSR for $500 would qualify.......  You have a bill of sale for $500, the car cost you $500 even though it is worth over $200K.

 

 

Edited by Cannon Fodder

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