JohnC

Chevy L99 aka LS3 Cam and Converter selection

62 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Disney said:

What's that old saying? you can lead a horse, but you can't lead a blind horse to better times because of mad misconceptions?

 

Literally, the first mod I would do if that car were mine would be a converter. One of the last would be a cam.

How much would a "streetable" converter shave off my ET in the 1/8 and 1/4?

I'd think keeping the stall at or under 2,500rpm would be streetable.

Opinions?

I don't want a super loose converter. :no:

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Have you been in a car with a modern "GOOD" converter? I feel like you have an unfavorable view on them. You do know that a good 3000 stall will drive almost exactly like the stock converter, right? It' snot like you sit still til 3000rpm then start creeping. It starts rolling once you put it in gear just like stock. It takes off from alight just like stock, maybe a tad looser. The main difference is when you mat the pedal, it allows more RPM before locking up.

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Have you been in a car with a modern "GOOD" converter? I feel like you have an unfavorable view on them. You do know that a good 3000 stall will drive almost exactly like the stock converter, right? It' snot like you sit still til 3000rpm then start creeping. It starts rolling once you put it in gear just like stock. It takes off from alight just like stock, maybe a tad looser. The main difference is when you mat the pedal, it allows more RPM before locking up.

^this. You should drive something with a good stall in it. It will completely change your mind.

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Single disc is good if you want to retain a lockup converter, but don't necessarily care to lock it at the track.

Triple disc is to lock under WOT with big power.  That's sometimes worth a little MPH at the track.

Single disc would be fine for you.  Your stock converter is a single disc.  You need to be careful with an aftermarket lockup converter for your car.  Some can require tuning changes, some are drop in.

I bought a one year membership to 6L80etuning.com and he has quite a bit of info there.  

Converter.png

Quote

There are many different ways to tune the converter.  Allot depends on the manufacturing specs and what the converter is capable of handling without coming apart.  The above image shows how we can take a specially built converter and slip it in such a way as to drag the increasing RPM of a 5000 stall converter, making it feel near stock.  You’ll notice multiple TCC parameters have been adjusted, mostly for converter apply rate/time.  I can’t show you every combination, but for the most part unless you’re running an OEM clutch material or similar, your Desired Slip tables need zeroed.  For most aftermarket single disk converters, the apply ramp should be modified for an increased converter feel/lock-up.  The OEM apply ramp is suited for a large diameter woven material and is not aggressive enough for a smaller TCC area.  For Twin and Triple disk converters, a lesser apply ramp may be required, as the increased TCC surface area tends to grab more aggressively.  Too aggressive of an apply can be hard on OEM drivetrain/components.  For all aftermarket carbon based TCC applications (%99 of aftermarket converters) it is wise to set the “Regulator Gain” to a value of 1 and the “Offset” to zero.  This will prevent the carbon TCC from dragging during the initial sample time.  Not usually felt with a single disk, but very evident on a Triple.  This dragging during the TCM’s sample time is unwanted with a carbon based material.  You then adjust the converter lockup/feel with the apply ramp.  Again, I could walk you through every converter combo, but I don’t wish to write a novel.  If this article, in conjunction with the apply ramp info under FAQs, does not fix your problem, I can help tech/tune whatever converter combination you have

 

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34 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Is there a best choice for my application if I were to use a small cam like the Tick?

This will be a DD of course, so longevity is a must. Don't want trans problems. :no:

redarrow.gif  High Performance

redarrow.gif  Pro Series Single Disk

redarrow.gif  Pro Series Multi Disk

 

You don't need a multi disk until you have a bunch of HP. The HP or single disk would be fine. I'd pick up a phone and call them. I still like the Precision Industries converters too. http://converter.com/vigilante.htm

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I was going to get GMPP CNC heads, cam and DOD/AFM delee kit first..... :hyper:

Now I got to think about this. :wall:

The labor to install that mofo is up there. I get why, but dangit I didn't want to spend money in that area yet! :meh:

 

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3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I was going to get GMPP CNC heads, cam and DOD/AFM delee kit first..... :hyper:

Now I got to think about this. :wall:

The labor to install that mofo is up there. I get why, but dangit I didn't want to spend money in that area yet! :meh:

 

Gonna put headers on too?  Looks like you could pull the engine at that point to install converter.

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4 hours ago, Tino said:

Converter. 

 

I have a 2500 in my yruck and it drives like stock. And if you need help installing it I'll lend you a hand.

We'd probably need a lift and trans jack thingy to do a converter because I'm sure this mofo is huge a real heavy. :yes:

Got access to a shop with that stuff? :hyper:

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22 hours ago, Mike said:

Single disc is good if you want to retain a lockup converter, but don't necessarily care to lock it at the track.

Triple disc is to lock under WOT with big power.  That's sometimes worth a little MPH at the track.

Single disc would be fine for you.  Your stock converter is a single disc.  You need to be careful with an aftermarket lockup converter for your car.  Some can require tuning changes, some are drop in.

I bought a one year membership to 6L80etuning.com and he has quite a bit of info there.  

Converter.png

 

They want $650 just for trans tuning? :eeek:

http://6l80etuning.com/custom-tuning

Maybe I've been in a cave for the last 10 years, but that seems a bit high to me. :meh:

$900 conveter

$650 tuning

$850+ to install

Total = $2,400.00

HCI or Converter... Hmmm....

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3 hours ago, JohnC said:

They want $650 just for trans tuning? :eeek:

http://6l80etuning.com/custom-tuning

Maybe I've been in a cave for the last 10 years, but that seems a bit high to me. :meh:

$900 conveter

$650 tuning

$850+ to install

Total = $2,400.00

HCI or Converter... Hmmm....

WHAT?!!!!  Bring that sucker to QuickTime Motorsports in the Boro for some realistic installation action! 

*Has lift and trans jack

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4 hours ago, JohnC said:

They want $650 just for trans tuning? :eeek:

http://6l80etuning.com/custom-tuning

Maybe I've been in a cave for the last 10 years, but that seems a bit high to me. :meh:

$900 conveter

$650 tuning

$850+ to install

Total = $2,400.00

HCI or Converter... Hmmm....

He would do engine tuning for that amount also.  But some local shops can do trans tuning with the engine tune.  You just need to discuss the tuning with the converter company.  Some converters won't require it.  I think it depends on the clutch material they use.

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I'm under a v6 car and the trans looks easy to pull...great access to the bell housing bolts, only a simple crossmember to pull, exhaust can stay.  Converter bolts would be the hardest thing.

If you want to spend $800 to install a converter:  bring car, converter, lots of guns and ammo to my house.   You stay and shoot, I go and swap converters.  :dirty:

Edited by Ashley P

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58 minutes ago, Ashley P said:

I'm under a v6 car and the trans looks easy to pull...great access to the bell housing bolts, only a simple crossmember to pull, exhaust can stay.  Converter bolts would be the hardest thing.

If you want to spend $800 to install a converter:  bring car, converter, lots of guns and ammo to my house.   You stay and shoot, I go and swap converters.  :dirty:

I might be wrong, but I would think the V8 has less room than a V6 at the bell housing.

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WTF would even be a good stall speed for a land-yacht with heads and cam? The 2600 - 2800 1A or 3000 - 3200 2A, etc?

Again, I don't want to go too crazy here. This isn't some all out drag car. This is a DD street and strip car that I still want to enjoy in traffic and cruising around with the wife.

Circle D has 2 choices (price seems good on these):

 

Quote

 

GM 278mm HP 6L80 LS Torque Converter

Great performance torque converter for a daily driven 5th Gen Camaro or G8. This torque converter will have great street manners and only flash high when you want it. 
  • Converter Diameter: 278mm - 11"
  • Stall speeds 2600 to 3200 RPM
  • Hand TIG Welded
  • High Carbon Spun Wound Lock-Up Clutch Lining
  • Heavy Duty Torrington Bearings
  • Exclusive CDS Bearing Retainer
     
    Price: $550.00 

    Base SKU: 07-07-07

     

     
     
    Circle D also has a pro series single disk. Not sure if that choice is worth the extra $350 for my application. I'd only choose it if it meant tougher build and more longevity. http://www.circledspecialties.com/c-59-pro-series-single-disk.aspx

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    In the truck world everyone who buys a 2600 stall wishes they went bigger. As long as you have realistic expectations with a stall you'll be happy. Slightly more throttle to get going, shifts will feel soft below the stall speed and your mpg will drop some.

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    5 minutes ago, gammey4 said:

    In the truck world everyone who buys a 2600 stall wishes they went bigger. As long as you have realistic expectations with a stall you'll be happy. Slightly more throttle to get going, shifts will feel soft below the stall speed and your mpg will drop some.

    No ****, I've been averaging between 15-17 MPG's since I disabled AFM/DOD. :meh:

    Any less MPG's and I might as well be daily driving a Mack truck. :lol:

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    No ****, I've been averaging between 15-17 MPG's since I disabled AFM/DOD. :meh:

    Any less MPG's and I might as well be daily driving a Mack truck. :lol:

    Dfco is still off also and 90mph trips don't equal mpg's lol. Throw your new intake on and let me tune that thing already! I'm off the first week of July. It can be an hands on instructions for you.

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    I don't want to add to your confusion anymore, but I'm going to anyway.  You are looking at a cam ($1k), heads ($1.5k min), converter ($1k) and that will require another $500 in incidentals (oil pump, gaskets, timing chain etc).  The cam and converter are going to have a negative impact on day to day driving.  Sure you can get a small cam and converter and a great tune and you will hardly notice it, but in return you probably won't gain a ton of power.  

    If you're going to spend $4k why not look into a blower.  You get all the extra power with no loss of driveability.  I'm not sure the total cost of an LSA blower swap, but it's got to be around that or maybe a little less.

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    3 minutes ago, Mike said:

    I don't want to add to your confusion anymore, but I'm going to anyway.  You are looking at a cam ($1k), heads ($1.5k min), converter ($1k) and that will require another $500 in incidentals (oil pump, gaskets, timing chain etc).  The cam and converter are going to have a negative impact on day to day driving.  Sure you can get a small cam and converter and a great tune and you will hardly notice it, but in return you probably won't gain a ton of power.  

    If you're going to spend $4k why not look into a blower.  You get all the extra power with no loss of driveability.  I'm not sure the total cost of an LSA blower swap, but it's got to be around that or maybe a little less.

    Umm, $4k for a complete supercharger setup? Sign me up!

    All I've seen is around $6,500-up for a blower!

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    27 minutes ago, gammey4 said:

    Dfco is still off also and 90mph trips don't equal mpg's lol. Throw your new intake on and let me tune that thing already! I'm off the first week of July. It can be an hands on instructions for you.

    I think I have a workaround for getting WOT tuning done until my Kooks setup comes in.

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bbk-1815

    Either weld on new AFR bungs or just zip tie the after cat O2's out of the way and use those bungs for the AEM AFR's.

    What do you think?

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